callmemike20
Jan 14, 11:14 PM
A few people have set up chat for MWSF in ichat. it is called: MWSF08. Simply go to file>Go to chatroom> MWSF08. All 7 of us in the room were wondering if MacRumors could lock this or announce it somehow.
MikeTheC
Nov 3, 01:19 AM
I'd like to tackle a few points in the discussion here.
Dirt-Cheap vs. Reasonable Economy (a.k.a. "The Wal-Martization of America"):
Apple has always had the philosophy that their name needs to mean a superior product. They have tended to shy away from producing bargain-basement products because it tends to take away from the "high-quality" reputation they are otherwise known for and desire to continue cultivating.
At direct odds with this is the pervasive and continually-perpetuated attitude in the U.S. (and elsewhere, perhaps) that the universe revolves exclusively around the mantra of "faster, cheaper, better", with emphasis on the latter two: cheaper and better. What I have noticed in my own 34 years on this planet is a considerable change in attitude, most easily summed up as people in general having their tastes almost "anti-cultured". It isn't "... cheaper, better" for them, but rather "cheaper = better". You can see this at all levels. Businesses, despite their claims to the contrary, tend to prioritize the executives specifically and the company generally making money over any other possible consideration. They try and drive their workforce from well-paid, highly competent full-time people, to part-time, no-medical or retirement-benefits-earning, low-experience, low-paid domestic help; and the second prong of their pincer movement is to outsource the rest.
Or, in short, "let's make a lot of money, but don't spend any in the process."
My goal here is not to get into the lengthy and well-trod discussion of corporate exploitation of the masses; rather it is to show the Wal-Mart effect at all levels.
More and more over the years I find that people have no taste. Steve Jobs accuses Microsoft of having no taste (a point I am not trying to argue against); I think however that he's hit a little low of the mark. The attitude out there seems to be one of total self-focus -- and not merely "me first", but rather "me first, me last, and ******* everybody else". They're the "I don't want to know anything", "all I want to do is get out of having to do anything I can, including not using my brain except for pleasure-seeking tasks," and "For God's sake, I surely don't want to have to spend more than the minimum on a computer" bunch.
Now, clearly, not everyone in the U.S. is like this; obviously, if they were, Apple would have no customers at all. But this is a real and fairly large group. Short of Apple practically giving away their computers, it's hard to imagine them being all that specifically attractive to that demographic. Moreover, those people are not merely non-enthusiasts; they want all of the benefits of having this trendy computer thing, but wish to be encumbered by none of the responsibilities.
To my way of thinking, frankly however large this group of people is, I would encourage Apple to avoid appealing to them whenever and wherever possible. If this means continuing the perception mentioned above of being a computer "for yuppies", then so be it.
Market Share Percentage and it's Perception:
Clearly, there is something to be gained by having the perception that "everyone's doing it". It's part of the reason why smoking, drinking, under-age sex, and drugs are so amazingly popular with us human beings the world over. It's part of the reason (maybe even a significant part) that iPods are so incredibly successful. Now, before someone here puts forth the argument that, "Well, you know, Apple's got a better design, and that's what attracts people to it," -- and that's quite true in it's own right -- let's break things down a bit.
Many animals develop and learn through a process called "patterning", and through imitation. Humans are not psychologically exempt from this; we do it all the time, and particularly so when we're younger. It's the fundamental force behind fashion, fads, and trends. There are definitely positive benefits to this. Kids, as they develop their social skills, learn from others the socially approved ways of behaving and interacting. Please note I did not use the term "correct" nor "right", but merely the "approved" (or, one might call it the "accepted") way. We also learn and learn from such things as casualty (actions have consequences), and other factors too numerous to pursue here.
Anyhow, all of these factors are in operation when it comes to buying technology (which is the boiled-down essence of what we're talking about here). Microsoft has learned this game, and has played it well for many years. Regardless of the "technically, we know it's bulls**t" truth, the reality of it is (and has been) when an unsavvy person walks into a store to buy a computer, and they see ten Windows-running computers on the shelf, and only one or two Mac OS-running computers there, they get the prima-facia notion that most computers are Windows computers, and by extension that statistically most people must be running Windows; therefore they should buy a Windows computer, too. There's a whole other subject here about how the ignorant sales people in electronics stores essentially use the same process to unwittingly deceive themselves into thinking the same thing. This is one of the factors which helped catapult Microsoft into the major, successful company they became. In truth, this specific scenario is a bit more 1994 than but it helps to explain why most people today who own a computer have only known life in a Microsoft world. As enough people attained this status, it became the dominant developmental factor in the world at large, which sort of helped to self-perpetuate the effect.
Let's also not lose sight of the fact that these statistics of percentage of platform used by definition leave out one particular group of people -- those who don't use a computer at all. After all, if you don't own a computer, you can't browse the web, send or receive email, or have your computer platform of choice tabulated in any kind of statistical data sample. One might be tempted to think that such a notion is silly, but it isn't. True, once we get to the point that only a statistically insignificant number of people on this planet don't own a computer (which is still far from the reality of today), counting their numbers won't matter for statistical purposes, it does matter. Why? Well, the statistics as presented make it seem like Macs (or Linux, or anything else) are only used by a subset of people on this planet. Not true! They're only used by a subset of a subset, the latter being the number of people on this planet who have a computer to be counted in such statistics in the first place.
Also, statistics vary depending on a variety of factors. It's also easy to write them off as a business or let them drop "below the radar" by various statistical gathering or reporting agencies; or merely through the informal process on the part of business owners of anecdotal evidence. Here's a perfect example of that very factor.
When the Macintosh came on the scene in 1984, and as it continued through it's early incarnations in the mid 1980s, it entered the fray of lots of non-defacto computer platforms. Or, to put it another way, it "came late to the party". So, you had all these computer dealers who were already trying to sell Apple ][s, TRS-80s, Commodore 64s (and later, C128s), Timex Sinclairs, an assortment of other PCs running proprietary OSs, amongst which were those which ran this thing called MS-DOS, and so forth and so on. Also, people who wound up buying Macs didn't exactly fit the same profile as those who had bought the other computers. You had artists -- literary, graphic, musical, etc. -- buying these things. While they didn't mind being technologically self-sufficent, they were not people who were interested in such things as tearing their computer apart and having a go at it's various electronic innards. Anyhow, they formed their own communities, and for various reasons didn't get a lot of support initially from local dealers and computer software stores. However, Apple did get quite a number of companies to write software or build hardware for their Mac platform. These companies started using mail-order as a significant portion of their sales strategy. Consequently, Mac owners used it as their more-and-more-primary computer-stuff purchasing regimen.
Ultimately, fewer and fewer Mac owners were going locally to buy stuff, due to availability and pricing. What then happened largely was this "perception" on the part of shop owners (and later their suppliers, etc.) that nobody out there used a Mac. As a result of their mis-perception, companies began to simply ignore us Mac users (I was around back then), acting as if we didn't exist; or at the least there weren't enough of us to bother supporting us or even trying to make money from us.
Now, at this point there's no denying there's more Windows boxen out there than Mac boxen, but this is still a valid factor and should not be discounted.
Besides, what number you hear quoted still, as it has for many, many years, depends on what your source is. I've heard numbers within the past month that range from 4.1 percent to 6 percent. Which one is correct? Does anyone even really know?
Since we can run Windows, why run Mac OS? (paranoia of market erosion):
I've been hearing this since before Apple ever disclosed their plans to switch to x86. It was actually one of the topics frequently -- and rather hotly, as I recall -- debated in these forums. However, I think the fear is greatly unjustified, and here's why.
First, let's look at it from an economic standpoint: Buying a Mac to run Windows is hardly the most cost-effective approach.
Second, let's look at it from a socio-economic standpoint: People don't buy a Mac to run Windows so much as they buy it to either try something different, or to escape Windows and the onslaught of problems that, in more recent years, it has brought to them.
Third, and while this really applies more to tech-savvy people: Windows represents a security and stability liability which most other operating systems do not.
In other words, by and large, people out there who are switching to a Mac are doing more than merely switching hardware: they're switching OS platforms. The fact that they can run Windows on a Mac is only slightly more of interest to them than is running an x86-based distro of GNU/Linux.
Bottom Line: Apple will appeal to and convert those that they can, and those are the hearts and minds which are the most vital and important anyhow. Let's not forget the relative merits of dummy-dropping. Sometimes, Darwin's theories of Evolution are more satisfyingly applied sociologically than biologically.
Dirt-Cheap vs. Reasonable Economy (a.k.a. "The Wal-Martization of America"):
Apple has always had the philosophy that their name needs to mean a superior product. They have tended to shy away from producing bargain-basement products because it tends to take away from the "high-quality" reputation they are otherwise known for and desire to continue cultivating.
At direct odds with this is the pervasive and continually-perpetuated attitude in the U.S. (and elsewhere, perhaps) that the universe revolves exclusively around the mantra of "faster, cheaper, better", with emphasis on the latter two: cheaper and better. What I have noticed in my own 34 years on this planet is a considerable change in attitude, most easily summed up as people in general having their tastes almost "anti-cultured". It isn't "... cheaper, better" for them, but rather "cheaper = better". You can see this at all levels. Businesses, despite their claims to the contrary, tend to prioritize the executives specifically and the company generally making money over any other possible consideration. They try and drive their workforce from well-paid, highly competent full-time people, to part-time, no-medical or retirement-benefits-earning, low-experience, low-paid domestic help; and the second prong of their pincer movement is to outsource the rest.
Or, in short, "let's make a lot of money, but don't spend any in the process."
My goal here is not to get into the lengthy and well-trod discussion of corporate exploitation of the masses; rather it is to show the Wal-Mart effect at all levels.
More and more over the years I find that people have no taste. Steve Jobs accuses Microsoft of having no taste (a point I am not trying to argue against); I think however that he's hit a little low of the mark. The attitude out there seems to be one of total self-focus -- and not merely "me first", but rather "me first, me last, and ******* everybody else". They're the "I don't want to know anything", "all I want to do is get out of having to do anything I can, including not using my brain except for pleasure-seeking tasks," and "For God's sake, I surely don't want to have to spend more than the minimum on a computer" bunch.
Now, clearly, not everyone in the U.S. is like this; obviously, if they were, Apple would have no customers at all. But this is a real and fairly large group. Short of Apple practically giving away their computers, it's hard to imagine them being all that specifically attractive to that demographic. Moreover, those people are not merely non-enthusiasts; they want all of the benefits of having this trendy computer thing, but wish to be encumbered by none of the responsibilities.
To my way of thinking, frankly however large this group of people is, I would encourage Apple to avoid appealing to them whenever and wherever possible. If this means continuing the perception mentioned above of being a computer "for yuppies", then so be it.
Market Share Percentage and it's Perception:
Clearly, there is something to be gained by having the perception that "everyone's doing it". It's part of the reason why smoking, drinking, under-age sex, and drugs are so amazingly popular with us human beings the world over. It's part of the reason (maybe even a significant part) that iPods are so incredibly successful. Now, before someone here puts forth the argument that, "Well, you know, Apple's got a better design, and that's what attracts people to it," -- and that's quite true in it's own right -- let's break things down a bit.
Many animals develop and learn through a process called "patterning", and through imitation. Humans are not psychologically exempt from this; we do it all the time, and particularly so when we're younger. It's the fundamental force behind fashion, fads, and trends. There are definitely positive benefits to this. Kids, as they develop their social skills, learn from others the socially approved ways of behaving and interacting. Please note I did not use the term "correct" nor "right", but merely the "approved" (or, one might call it the "accepted") way. We also learn and learn from such things as casualty (actions have consequences), and other factors too numerous to pursue here.
Anyhow, all of these factors are in operation when it comes to buying technology (which is the boiled-down essence of what we're talking about here). Microsoft has learned this game, and has played it well for many years. Regardless of the "technically, we know it's bulls**t" truth, the reality of it is (and has been) when an unsavvy person walks into a store to buy a computer, and they see ten Windows-running computers on the shelf, and only one or two Mac OS-running computers there, they get the prima-facia notion that most computers are Windows computers, and by extension that statistically most people must be running Windows; therefore they should buy a Windows computer, too. There's a whole other subject here about how the ignorant sales people in electronics stores essentially use the same process to unwittingly deceive themselves into thinking the same thing. This is one of the factors which helped catapult Microsoft into the major, successful company they became. In truth, this specific scenario is a bit more 1994 than but it helps to explain why most people today who own a computer have only known life in a Microsoft world. As enough people attained this status, it became the dominant developmental factor in the world at large, which sort of helped to self-perpetuate the effect.
Let's also not lose sight of the fact that these statistics of percentage of platform used by definition leave out one particular group of people -- those who don't use a computer at all. After all, if you don't own a computer, you can't browse the web, send or receive email, or have your computer platform of choice tabulated in any kind of statistical data sample. One might be tempted to think that such a notion is silly, but it isn't. True, once we get to the point that only a statistically insignificant number of people on this planet don't own a computer (which is still far from the reality of today), counting their numbers won't matter for statistical purposes, it does matter. Why? Well, the statistics as presented make it seem like Macs (or Linux, or anything else) are only used by a subset of people on this planet. Not true! They're only used by a subset of a subset, the latter being the number of people on this planet who have a computer to be counted in such statistics in the first place.
Also, statistics vary depending on a variety of factors. It's also easy to write them off as a business or let them drop "below the radar" by various statistical gathering or reporting agencies; or merely through the informal process on the part of business owners of anecdotal evidence. Here's a perfect example of that very factor.
When the Macintosh came on the scene in 1984, and as it continued through it's early incarnations in the mid 1980s, it entered the fray of lots of non-defacto computer platforms. Or, to put it another way, it "came late to the party". So, you had all these computer dealers who were already trying to sell Apple ][s, TRS-80s, Commodore 64s (and later, C128s), Timex Sinclairs, an assortment of other PCs running proprietary OSs, amongst which were those which ran this thing called MS-DOS, and so forth and so on. Also, people who wound up buying Macs didn't exactly fit the same profile as those who had bought the other computers. You had artists -- literary, graphic, musical, etc. -- buying these things. While they didn't mind being technologically self-sufficent, they were not people who were interested in such things as tearing their computer apart and having a go at it's various electronic innards. Anyhow, they formed their own communities, and for various reasons didn't get a lot of support initially from local dealers and computer software stores. However, Apple did get quite a number of companies to write software or build hardware for their Mac platform. These companies started using mail-order as a significant portion of their sales strategy. Consequently, Mac owners used it as their more-and-more-primary computer-stuff purchasing regimen.
Ultimately, fewer and fewer Mac owners were going locally to buy stuff, due to availability and pricing. What then happened largely was this "perception" on the part of shop owners (and later their suppliers, etc.) that nobody out there used a Mac. As a result of their mis-perception, companies began to simply ignore us Mac users (I was around back then), acting as if we didn't exist; or at the least there weren't enough of us to bother supporting us or even trying to make money from us.
Now, at this point there's no denying there's more Windows boxen out there than Mac boxen, but this is still a valid factor and should not be discounted.
Besides, what number you hear quoted still, as it has for many, many years, depends on what your source is. I've heard numbers within the past month that range from 4.1 percent to 6 percent. Which one is correct? Does anyone even really know?
Since we can run Windows, why run Mac OS? (paranoia of market erosion):
I've been hearing this since before Apple ever disclosed their plans to switch to x86. It was actually one of the topics frequently -- and rather hotly, as I recall -- debated in these forums. However, I think the fear is greatly unjustified, and here's why.
First, let's look at it from an economic standpoint: Buying a Mac to run Windows is hardly the most cost-effective approach.
Second, let's look at it from a socio-economic standpoint: People don't buy a Mac to run Windows so much as they buy it to either try something different, or to escape Windows and the onslaught of problems that, in more recent years, it has brought to them.
Third, and while this really applies more to tech-savvy people: Windows represents a security and stability liability which most other operating systems do not.
In other words, by and large, people out there who are switching to a Mac are doing more than merely switching hardware: they're switching OS platforms. The fact that they can run Windows on a Mac is only slightly more of interest to them than is running an x86-based distro of GNU/Linux.
Bottom Line: Apple will appeal to and convert those that they can, and those are the hearts and minds which are the most vital and important anyhow. Let's not forget the relative merits of dummy-dropping. Sometimes, Darwin's theories of Evolution are more satisfyingly applied sociologically than biologically.
TN-3
Jul 10, 11:01 PM
Wow, I was going to go by after my meeting at work (approx. noon)...I hope there will be some left. I guess I will stop by the Apple store in Green Hills first, if they are out, then it is off to the Cool Springs store.
Abulia
Sep 27, 10:48 AM
Dooooooooooooooommmmmmm!!!!!
:eek: :eek: :eek:
:eek: :eek: :eek:
more...
coolbreeze
Nov 5, 06:56 PM
I think it would be cool to use your phone for payments and some of these other functions. Excited to see what the next version will bring.
This. @ any store, @ a Coke machine, @ the movies.
Just hold your iPhone up to the sensor. Possibly enter a PIN to validate.
Done.
I reach for my phone at the same time I reach for my wallet. Never leave home without it.
Perfect payment tool.
This. @ any store, @ a Coke machine, @ the movies.
Just hold your iPhone up to the sensor. Possibly enter a PIN to validate.
Done.
I reach for my phone at the same time I reach for my wallet. Never leave home without it.
Perfect payment tool.
iGary
Apr 2, 04:30 PM
I haven't used it yet either, but I plan on giving it a go for my first newsletter for my burgeoning photo biz.
I have played around with it a bit, but really can't comment yet.
I like Word for one thing: typing. I'm a writer (not trying to sound egotistical) and I hate it when an application tries to tell me how do do something TOTALLY WRONG. (And yes, I know I can turn that off.)
</rant>
I have played around with it a bit, but really can't comment yet.
I like Word for one thing: typing. I'm a writer (not trying to sound egotistical) and I hate it when an application tries to tell me how do do something TOTALLY WRONG. (And yes, I know I can turn that off.)
</rant>
more...
61132
Nov 14, 11:25 AM
I am sure there will be adapters that would convert normal RCA connectors to an ipod dock connector, then you could connect any mp3 player (zune) to the airlines ipod system. But still, more of an inconvenience to a Zune user :)
MBP13
May 6, 07:28 PM
When I was deciding on getting a laptop, an HP Envy was suggested over the MacBook Pro 13 because it's supposedly just as good as a MacBook Pro.
Here's a video of an HP Envy along side a MacBook Pro 13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0eTnABVBgw
Just seeing all the problems with that piece of crap made me decide that I'll buy the Mac. :) But, why else do you expect from a cheap Windows PC??
Here's a video of an HP Envy along side a MacBook Pro 13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0eTnABVBgw
Just seeing all the problems with that piece of crap made me decide that I'll buy the Mac. :) But, why else do you expect from a cheap Windows PC??
more...
amacgenius
Sep 1, 01:38 AM
Who wants to take bets on when the update will be released on torrent sites and FTP servers just like the dev beta? :D
GregR
Apr 19, 11:12 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
Also the guy is pointing to the camera/LED flash in the second video. And the camera looks different, maybe a little smaller? And there is a little screen around the two, which catches the light at one point.
Also the guy is pointing to the camera/LED flash in the second video. And the camera looks different, maybe a little smaller? And there is a little screen around the two, which catches the light at one point.
more...
DeSnousa
Aug 25, 12:59 AM
Cool i was wondering also, thanks for putting the effort into making it and im looking forward to it too :)
PeterQVenkman
Feb 26, 01:25 PM
The blight of liberalism. How about we talk about how time and time again, it's utterly failed to do anything but grow an already bloated government, destroy liberty, personal property, and worsen an economy that used to be second-to-none?
You are unwise to choose a side in a fight where neither parties give a rat's ass about you. It's not liberalism or conservatism that has failed to do anything. It's both. Our government is at a standstill.
But I know they need their vacation time. And of course, they need their pensions even if they only serve one term. It's a lot of hard work accomplishing nothing and we owe them so much.
You are unwise to choose a side in a fight where neither parties give a rat's ass about you. It's not liberalism or conservatism that has failed to do anything. It's both. Our government is at a standstill.
But I know they need their vacation time. And of course, they need their pensions even if they only serve one term. It's a lot of hard work accomplishing nothing and we owe them so much.
more...
YoGramMamma
Apr 13, 01:35 AM
One thing that i hadnt considered until i got to use it first hand was the whole issue of latency. I got a 64GB VZW model (and while i was origianlly going to get the ATT version, i figured i'd just jailbreak and go the miWi route.. so I am gonna keep the vzw one)..
Anyway, ive used an att one and a vzw one side by side both with abotu 3 bars of signal and the vzw one smoked the att one on response time alone. the VZW was almost done loading the whole page before the att one even begun. They ultimately ended up finishing close to one another, and i am sure on larger uploads and downloads teh faster bandwidth would be a plus, but for most browsing, having a faster response time is better.... and the VZW definitely wins in this area.
Anyway, ive used an att one and a vzw one side by side both with abotu 3 bars of signal and the vzw one smoked the att one on response time alone. the VZW was almost done loading the whole page before the att one even begun. They ultimately ended up finishing close to one another, and i am sure on larger uploads and downloads teh faster bandwidth would be a plus, but for most browsing, having a faster response time is better.... and the VZW definitely wins in this area.
NamJangNamJa
Nov 14, 12:15 PM
What is a Zune? :D :eek:
I don't know, either. :D :eek:
I don't know, either. :D :eek:
more...
Kaafir
Nov 2, 09:08 AM
I'll be interested to see what share Apple has of the holiday season new computer purchases this year as compared to years past. With the entire line up now being Intel processor based, I'd be willing to bet that the holiday buying season will show some significant growth.
(I can still remember back in 2001 - one of my friends and I were talking stocks and I told him to buy Apple because this new "ipod" thing looked pretty promising. At that time it was around $18/share for Apple stock. He said that was the worst advice he'd ever heard for investing...) :p
(I can still remember back in 2001 - one of my friends and I were talking stocks and I told him to buy Apple because this new "ipod" thing looked pretty promising. At that time it was around $18/share for Apple stock. He said that was the worst advice he'd ever heard for investing...) :p
cantthinkofone
Sep 27, 09:00 AM
I hope so, 10.4.7 is still the prime suspect for breaking my Firewire audio interface.
im not to fond of 10.4.7 either. i think 10.3.7 was when my G5 crashed and i had to re-install OS X :eek: when 10.5.7 rolls around, i think ill skip it.
im not to fond of 10.4.7 either. i think 10.3.7 was when my G5 crashed and i had to re-install OS X :eek: when 10.5.7 rolls around, i think ill skip it.
more...
tk421
Oct 26, 05:59 PM
Come on, people! This isn't Photoshop. This is a beta. If it is an entirely new application, why should they develop it for PPC? I don't understand all the fuss. Anyone in need of audio software has plenty of options out there. Remember, this isn't even 1.0 yet. It won't be for a while.
Chip NoVaMac
Mar 13, 12:39 AM
haha, i wonder what the breakdown would eventually be :confused:
Being in a Red State, I have noticed this week that the availability of bottles with caps is getting lower. Also since I use the "tilt" method, I am seeing fewer bottles with winning iTunes, and more with BOGO.
Though to be honest it would seem that it would in Pepsi's best interests to get the bottles in the hands of maybe the top 25 to 50 metro areas. Now that would be an interesting map to see.
Being in a Red State, I have noticed this week that the availability of bottles with caps is getting lower. Also since I use the "tilt" method, I am seeing fewer bottles with winning iTunes, and more with BOGO.
Though to be honest it would seem that it would in Pepsi's best interests to get the bottles in the hands of maybe the top 25 to 50 metro areas. Now that would be an interesting map to see.
talmy
Mar 14, 10:53 AM
Ah, right. In the developer site there is an implication that the server version would be separate. But I'm still expecting some sort of gimmick. With the Mac Store one could end up paying for each little feature as an option.
MakX
Jan 6, 09:52 PM
Scrap that, working now.
Lacero
Apr 2, 08:21 PM
I used it for 20 minutes and gave up on the program. I won't revisit the program until version 3. That's how bad I think it is.
thegreatluke
Nov 12, 11:53 AM
Hmm, omoshiroi...
This is sort of off-topic, but is anyone else very amused at the voice they gave for the French John Hodgman? (http://www.apple.com/fr/getamac/)
This is sort of off-topic, but is anyone else very amused at the voice they gave for the French John Hodgman? (http://www.apple.com/fr/getamac/)
Knowimagination
Mar 11, 06:47 PM
wow those went fast. I was in the first group at knox street and I made it in and out pretty quickly. Setting it up now!
waloshin
Apr 11, 04:20 PM
$3.49 Cedar City, Utah (Unleaded)
All gasoline is unleaded now days. $1.239/litre
All gasoline is unleaded now days. $1.239/litre
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